Obviously this question is only for people who eat beef regularly.

But I just was wondering, what IQ/ability would make you swear off beef? If they could speak like an 8 y.o, would that be enough to cut off beef? If they got an IQ of 80, would that do it?

  • Call me Lenny/Leni@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    What I eat is already dead. I’ve never decided to eat something in such a way that it contributed to the harm of any lifeform. So it’s not a matter of intelligence, but if it was, it could be as intelligent as a snail and I still wouldn’t eat it.

        • Wookie@artemis.camp
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          1 year ago

          Have you ever heard of demand and supply? You are being willfully ignorant or playing dumb

          • Call me Lenny/Leni@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            It’s not demand and supply if you don’t “demand” the supply of anything. Sure, I buy meat, but it’s not something I look forward to the existence of.

            If someone strikes an animal while driving, or a natural disaster takes its life, and someone decides it might as well be eaten, is that supply and demand? If I stop over at someone’s house, and they have hunted an animal they’re about to eat, but I neither hunted the animal nor knew they would eat the animal for dinner that night as I visited, is that supply and demand, or did I just happen to be somewhere where someone else’s guilt of having killed an animal is in my favor?

            It’s a spectrum, hence the link.

            • Wookie@artemis.camp
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              1 year ago

              That’s a no on your link dawg. I like the magical land you live in tho, where meat just appears for you to consume

              • Call me Lenny/Leni@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                Meat doesn’t magically appear. It comes from animals who have just died. But the deaths do not necessarily come via a single means, nor does the consumer necessarily have any bearing on the suffering of the animal or future animals.

                I am surprised that anyone would mention “supply and demand” at all given Lemmy has a largely (including myself, just not from a Marxist viewpoint) anti-capitalist demographic, which would mean supply and demand shouldn’t be seen as a necessary factor.

                • Kerfuffle@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  nor does the consumer necessarily have any bearing on the suffering of the animal or future animals.

                  That’s absurd. So if I hire an assassin to kill you, I have absolutely no responsibility if you’re killed by an assassin?

                  Companies won’t kill animals to produce meat unless there’s demand. If you buy meat, you’re creating demand. There is a causal link between your consumption and what happens to the animals. Therefore, you have at least a share of the responsibility.

                  I am surprised that anyone would mention “supply and demand” at all given Lemmy has a largely (including myself, just not from a Marxist viewpoint) anti-capitalist demographic

                  Being anti-capitalist doesn’t mean one is incapable of understanding how capitalism works. There are rules that govern it, and those exist whether you’re in favor of it as a system or not.

                  • Call me Lenny/Leni@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    I would blame the assassin. They pulled the trigger. Anyone could do anything between “enjoy” the outcome to “want” it to ask for it, and that’s a spectrum, but then there’s the person who does the deed. And even then, there’s coordination between you and the assassin. There’s nothing saying there’s absolutely going to be any coordination between the meat being brought to the store and the meat being brought home.

            • Remmock@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              The purchase of an item is treated as the demand of an item. This is how an economy works. They don’t mean that you’re barging into places yelling about how you want meat. Your money flowing to them is enough to justify further slaughter to provide more meat.

              • Call me Lenny/Leni@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                Sometimes the supply exceeds the demand though. Suppose there are a thousand pieces of meat in a store. Only eight hundred are bought. The other two hundred isn’t bought and spoils, yet with no bearing on the market. So then imagine someone standing in the store mulling this over, “I could buy the meat, as long as it’s there, or I could refuse it, and it has died in vain, but also if I buy it, who is to say I have a bearing on its death or if the money goes to the industry, when the store already paid for it and might have backup uses for it?”

                I don’t think in black and white.

                • Remmock@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  They always prepare more than the allotted amount based on demand to meet unanticipated fluctuations. Your spent dollars on meat per month are calculated into their spreadsheets. No amount of pretend justification liberates you from the consequences of your actions. If you did not buy meat, there would be (your consumption*1.25) less meat in the store on average. You are not buying overflow meat. They are producing your meat plus overflow.

                  Just for you.

    • Dandroid@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      I eat meat, but this is a dumb fucking take. The meat industry exists because we eat meat. If people didn’t eat meat, then cows wouldn’t be slaughtered. Therefore, if we all didn’t eat meat, that cow that you ate wouldn’t be dead.

      • Call me Lenny/Leni@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        The meat industry exists because we eat meat.

        But not all meat-eating leads to the perpetuation of the meat industry. Not all exchanges involving meat are fuel for said industry.

        The goal of pro-animal ethics is “do no harm”, not “do not eat them”. There are several workarounds to the former. I’m not pulling these out of my ass, there are century-old industries around these too.