Hey Folks!
I’ve been living abroad for over half my life in a country where tipping is not the norm. At most you would round up. 19€ bill? Here’s a 20, keep this change.
Going to the US soon to visit family and the whole idea of tipping makes me nervous. It seems there’s a lot of discussion about getting rid of tipping, but I don’t know how much has changed in this regard.
The system seems ridiculously unfair, and that extra expense in a country where everything is already so expensive really makes a difference.
So will AITA if I don’t tip? Is it really my personal responsibility to make sure my server is paid enough?
It seems there’s a lot of discussion about getting rid of tipping, but I don’t know how much has changed in this regard.
Nothing has changed, and it never will, as it concerns poor and “therefore” “deserving” people. Americans’ talk is cheap.
The system seems ridiculously unfair, and that extra expense in a country where everything is already so expensive really makes a difference.
Agreed. So when you go to a restaurant and you have a maximum amount you can spend, divide the amount of money you have by (100% + local sales tax), then divide by (100% + the menu price), and subtract any surcharges added by the restaurant (assume $5.00 if you cannot look it up), often masquerading as a tip. I know it’s a lot of math, but you have a computer in your pocket. You’ll manage.
In my view, the US is a fractal scam. At every level, everything is an attempt to extract money from ill-informed “suckers”, from the running of the government, to the prices of supermarket groceries, to the tipping culture at restaurants, to even finding a place to put your car [1]. Every single thing is someone’s grift. In order to function in America, you need to be willing to be suckered to some extent. There’s no way around it. Unfairness is baked into every transaction, and increasingly more social interactions.
Everything in America is ridiculously unfair. We wear this on our sleeves, and for many Americans this fact defines their personality. Unfortunately, you will have to deal with it in the short term at least.
Now if you would like to be the one to lead the charge against the tipping culture and the foisting of responsibility for servers’ compensation onto the customer, then be my guest. Refuse to tip and make a big scene about it. Make plans for how to take the inertia of your big struggle and turn it into a mass movement. I would thrilled to join you. However, I somehow doubt that you’re ready to go that far; none of the customers who stiffed me ever went on to start anti-tipping movements.
So will AITA if I don’t tip?
Yes. You are expected by all members of the public here to tip. That is our culture, something we’re proud of for some reason, and our expectation. For some servers, tips are the primary source of income at work.
Is it really my personal responsibility to make sure my server is paid enough?
No, it is the responsibility of the employer. However, when no employer takes their responsibility and you sit yourself down at a restaurant, the logical conclusion is that either you pay that part of the server’s wages, or they get stiffed. You know that this is the conclusion. (Or if not, now you do.)
If you want to participate in our unique restaurant scam, you gotta accept that you’re going to get suckered into paying the server’s wages. Otherwise, don’t go to restaurants. When you go to a restaurant, you waste the employees’ finite time on this planet doing tedious, physically and mentally demanding bullshit that no sane person would choose to engage with, if not faced with the threats of homelessness and starvation. [2] At least make it worth their while.
Sorry if I come off as having a chip on my shoulder, but that’s only because I totally do. So many customers used to concern-troll me as a pizza delivery person and give me shit like “sorry, couldn’t afford to tip, they should really pay you more.” Yeah, they should, but you absolutely could have tipped; all you had to do was order one less topping. I’d love to see some actual solidarity with food service employees, but that would require challenging deep-rooted assumptions about our culture and we’re too shit-for-brains to do that. Americans are so compassionate and empathetic until the moment they actually have to lift a finger.
So when someone brings up “unfairness” or “it’s X’s responsibility to pay the workers” in response to tipping, I just kinda die a little inside from all the times those sentiments have been used against me and my colleagues.
[1] And don’t even get me started on the process of buying a car, or how the public was scammed into accepting a car-centric infrastructure.
[2] This is really a special case of the logic behind the antiwork movement: nobody actually wants to go to work. We only go to work under the threats of starvation and homelessness imposed by capitalism.
Solid rant. No, really, I enjoyed it til the end. Spot on!
Here, unfortunately, YTA if you don’t tip. I forgot once and had the server run after me to make sure something wasn’t wrong. Some service folks take it personally if you don’t tip, which makes sense given that their employers don’t pay them shit. So yeah, you the customer foot the bill for ensuring these people can make ends meet… as if giving the restaurant your custom wasn’t support enough.
The problem is that, like most other industries here in the US, the system is rigged against the working class. While not all restaurant owners intend to fuck over their staff (especially smaller, local places), it’s how it works. Now, some places will automatically add gratuity to your bill under certain conditions, so check your breakdown to ensure it’s not already included. This is becoming more common, which irritates me since I scale my tip based on the quality of the service rendered.
Also, we know it’s expensive here. Don’t bother coming here to complain about it, we do it enough ourselves. Tipping is here to stay for now and I don’t imagine it changing for quite some time.
Just to add onto this good answer, you are really only expected to tip for sit-down restaurants with service and bars.
For takeout, cafes, fast food, etc., you don’t need to tip. A lot of places these have payment machines that just ask if you want to tip by default. You can safely hit “No tip” on these if you don’t want to.
Ostensibly it’s just to replace the tip jar for those who don’t use cash, but the prompt appearing every time you pay by card has convinced a lot of people that tipping is what you’re supposed to do in those situations, when in reality you have no obligation to.
Definitely tip. If you think the whole system sucks that’s fine, but don’t take out that frustration on the likely vastly underpaid employees
You enter a social compact when you enter an establishment that does tipping. When you don’t tip, you’re not making it better, your making sure someone goes hungry
if:
a. a person “has” to rely on other people to tip them
b. said person goes “hungry” if a single person/table doesn’t tip themyou… uh… have other issues to think about
I’d say yes. The situation is complex.
It’s clear that tipping culture is out of control. There are many places asking for 20% tips even when ordering from a counter where the interaction takes about 10 seconds.
Unfortunately there has also been a systematic underpayment of wages which has occurred largely on the back of tips. In some states it is even legal to pay less than minimum wage and supplement that with tips. For that reason, it’s not really an option to simply not tip without being the bad guy.
Certainly the system needs to change, but as of this moment in the US, just assume everything actually costs 20% more and tip.
it’s not really an option to simply not tip without being the bad guy
My man you have got to shake this from your psyche, that’s exactly how the employers that aren’t paying their employees want you to feel. You’re offloading their greed and systematic exploitation of working class people onto yourself under the misplaced guise of personal guilt. There may not a way to immediately fix the problem, but I can guarantee it will never get fixed if we dont change anything.
Ribbits
That’s not how that works. If you increase minimum wage you increase living costs
While I agree with the premise that minimum wage increases raise living costs… If the tips are already increases wages, I fail to see how tipped low wages are not effectively the same as untipped higher wages.
Tips don’t go though the corporate finances usually
What does that have to do with anything? Minimum wage increases tends to lead to people having more disposable income… which leads to companies and the like charging more for services because the market can now bare it.
What does corporate finances have to do with a person making their low wages + tips vs just an up front higher wage to get to a higher minimum wage?
Because raising minimum wage causes inflation because companies have more overhead
Ribbits
Yes. You really have to tip. 20%. Sorry. And tax isn’t included in the prices of things. That’s the way things work here and you can choose to spend the whole time being annoyed by it or not. But please don’t make a personal protest that only hurts some of the lowest paid and hardest working people.
To be as clear as possible - the minimum wage for tipped staff is $2.13/hr. That’s why you have to tip.
This is deceiving though. In The US tipping is literally everywhere now.
If you are waited on, I. E. Sat at a table or served at a bar, tipping is expected. If you go to a counter and place an order and someone hands you something while you’re standing there, those workers aren’t making 2.13/hr.
Not true, restuarants have to make up the difference in their wage if they dont make enough in tips.
Yes, up to minimum wage, which is still often not enought to live on.
Do you tip the Walmart Greeter? Why or why not?
Just FYI, we have recently had a huge influx of electronic systems asking for tips in places that tips didn’t exist before. I only tip when I sit down to eat at a restaurant and they serve me. If you walk up to the counter to order, you don’t tip. If you are ordering takeout (even at a sit-down restaurant), you don’t tip.
It’s a really fucking stupid system that most of us hate, but if you don’t participate, you are the asshole according to our culture (even though we know it’s really the businesses not paying their employees enough that are really the assholes)
Edit: oh, and then “suggested tip” went up around the same time that these electronic systems popped up. My whole life, a 10% tip was bad, a 15% tip was average. A 20% tip was good. Now it seems the “suggested tip” says you should tip 20% minimum. I think this is bullshit, and I ignore it. The people who are suggesting the tip are the ones that benefit from it going higher. They are always going to try to increase it as long as they can get away with it. I stick to the 10/15/20% rule.
There’s been a small movement towards going tipless that hasn’t yet caught on because tip culture is primarily backed by greed. Restaurant owners want customers to pay their employees directly instead of providing them with a decent wage.
I know I’m likely misrepresenting, but that’s the gist as I see it, and until greed goes away everything @dandroid@dandroid.app said holds true.
Restaurant owners want customers to pay their employees directly instead of providing them with a decent wage.
A lot of employees want this as well. Those who do well in well traveled restaurants or bars then to make WELL over the minimum wage. This is why the employees get mad at the patron/client rather than their employer when they don’t get a tip. It works… it’s what many of them want.
The sad part is that prices for things have already been going up considerably… So what was a $5 tip @ 10% years ago is now closer to $20 tip @ 20% today for the same meals/amount of food. It isn’t a 2x increase at all… Since it’s % based on subtotal and those costs have been going up… it’s significantly more if you follow their “minimum” percent tips.
I follow something similar to Dandroid and refuse to change. I only tip for sit-down restaurants where an actual servers brings me my food. If I get shit service, you’re not getting a tip. If it’s basic service, you’ll get 10%… 15% for “good”… 20% for outstanding. Although looking at the laws in my state, I’m debating on cutting it back considerably. Minimum wage in my state is not the $3.and change per hour for those positions. It’s just about $11 and the normal minimum wage is $13 and change. So if I’m the only table in their whole section, and I tip 2$ per hour, they’re making minimum wage. And people here still complain about the tipping… The only explanation is greed… and I can’t stand that at all.
As I recall, restaurants can get by with giving workers well below minimum wage because of tips.EDIT: I just re-read your post
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
This is a great resource when these discussions come up. Many states do NOT adhere to the $2.13 tipped wage.
In my state (AZ) it’s $10.85. People here still complain about tips. The minimum wage here is $13.85. The $3 difference is nearly guaranteed as long as long as you have 1 table an hour. Forget that the normal where I live is probably closer to 3-4 every hour. [I recognize that other areas may not have such traffic. But I can only comment on what I observe]
If the average table is leaving ~$5 in tips… you could easily make $30 an hour in wages.
This is why I say what I say… It’s absurd when I hear local news or something complaining. $30/hr is stupid “livable”.
My view is: I don’t like this cultural element, and I am glad that I live in a country without it. But if I am a visitor from abroad I would not resist the local culture and try to impose my own values. If I am aware of this cultural element and I dislike it, my options would be to either avoid restaurants and other tipping situations as much as I can, or simply account for the tip when making my financial decisions, and pay it.
If I live in the country then it is different, because then I am more entitled to be a driver of change. Personally, my approach would be to support businesses with explicit no-tipping policy, and to refuse receiving tips myself.
Yes, it does make you the asshole, especially because you know that’s what we do here and why we do it. Until living wage laws are passed, it’s not going to change.
In all honesty, I will probably just tip the minimum amount and try not to let it get to me. Its not like I’ll be out eating by myself anyway, there will be plenty of social pressure to help me along :)
But imagine if all jobs worked this way. Oh, you wanted a good outcome for your surgery? Maybe you should have tipped your surgeon! Oh, you wanted your taxes done correctly? Should have tipped! Sorry boss, I would have gotten you that report on time, but you forgot to leave me a tip!
I also think its silly that tips are based on the price of your meal, as if that has anything to do with the service whatsoever. So the person who ordered a steak pays more in a tip than the person who ordered a salad? Why? It would make way more sense to tip based on time spent in the establishment. I would understand a standard 5$ tip per half-hour or something way more.
Here’s the thing. There are now tips added to all sorts of checkouts. And it’s muddier than ever.
As an American I don’t tip shit unless it’s a full service restaurant. Aka they are refilling my drinks for me.
If I’m getting a sandwich at a sandwich line where you stand in line and call out what ingrediants you want and take it to go, I don’t tip. If I’m just getting a coffee black, I’m not tipping. Etc etc.
The checkouts now though ask for tips on all sorts of stuff. I increasingly refuse to tip for things like self service places, takeout, etc.
You should take a look at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_states_by_minimum_wage and see what the minimum wage is in the state you are visiting. The minimum wage where I am is one of the highest in the nation so I don’t tip anymore.
Edit: I am aware many states have below federal minimum for tipped employees. My point was if they’re visiting one of the states with a high minimum wage, they should forgo tipping. Nobody below bothered to link it, but here’s the minimum wage page for tipped employees: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped. It’s worth noting that even in the states that can pay tipped employee as little as $2.13/hr, the employees never actually make less than the federal minimum of $7.25/hr because the employer has to make up the difference if the employee doesn’t make enough in tips, not that $7.25/hr is even remotely a livable wage in 2023…
Regardless, tipping is an inherently flawed system, and it’s not the responsibility of the consumer to pay specifically the server a living wage while everyone in the kitchen suffers (I would know, I’ve been there). If you’re not happy with the wage laws in your state, get involved in politics and exercise your right to vote to do something about it.
Most states in the US have separate lower minimum wages for tipped workers, with a federal minimum of $2.13/hour.
There are already a lot of good answers here, but I thought you might appreciate a fictionalized version of my personal experience.
—
Back in the kitchen, the hostess comes in.
“I’ve got a 2-top at table 23, who’s next in the rotation?”
“Uh… I think it’s Bob, but he’s busy doing bumps in the walk in. I’ll take it. They nice?”
“Uhh, I think they’re German.”
—
Unfortunately for them, the knowledge that Europeans tend to tip poorly or not at all proceeds them. The server who took the two top will still serve them, but either consciously or subconsciously the service will suffer. Maybe your food was done five minutes ago sitting on the hot line, but your server decided to go chat up the elderly couple or the regular customer instead. Maybe the server is more rude or cold to you than other guests. Or maybe you’re lucky and your server isn’t yet jaded. Your mileage may vary depending on if you’re eating in a small town diner or a tourist hotspot, but even if the service seems fine, there’s almost certainly chatter going on behind your back from the moment you sit down.
There’s a very small chance that your server will chase after you if you leave no tip, but that is virtually unheard of and will get the server fired if it’s a nicer establishment. The more likely chain of events is that you leave, the server checks the checkbook, then goes into the back-of-house to scream/cry/drink/smoke/fuck someone/something. It’s completely ruined several of my shifts.
—BUT—
The above is all wrong. It felt gross to type, and feels grosser to know that I once felt that. These feelings may have been ‘valid’ considering the tipped system that I was a part of, but I have a hard time thinking of them as ‘reasonable’. As an empathetic human, I wish to treat everyone well. Also, I love travel, and would love to spend 30 minutes talking about the Cologne cathedral or the Bielefeld conspiracy or whateverthefuck. But I can’t, because then I’d be actively losing money. The profit motive of tip system makes servers, managers, and even clients all jaded. The anger that I felt when I was stiffed was unjustly redirected from the tipping system to the individual, because the system is designed to perpetuate itself. I make less money now, but I’m very glad I left that industry.
—
BONUS: If you want to see a hilarious yet barely over exaggerated vignette of what American servers do and how they think when you can’t see them, give Waiting… (2005) a watch.
i hope i can avoid ever having to come to the US.
No
no it’s not required but I can afford to tip so I do and that makes me better than people who don’t ;)
